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Kernak
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PublicitéSupprimer les publicités ?
Bon je viens de récupérer mon arcadia magazine de janvier No.152. Il y a 6 pages sur ggxxac+R fait par H.H, koichi, cw, un autre(mais du mal a traduire) avec l'aide de FAB, ogawa, dogura.

Dans ces 6 pages, il y a deux tiers listes.
Donc les voicis:

La 1er tier liste;

S) kliff, faust, zappa.
A) millia, chipp, jam, anji, axl, ino.
B) eddy, potemkin, baiken, johnny, dizzy, slayer, A.B.A, order-sol.
C) sol, ky, may, venom, testament, bridget, robo-ky.
D) justice



La 2eme tier liste;

S) faust, chipp, zappa.
A) millia, baiken, jam, dizzy, slayer.
B) sol, may, eddy, potemkin, axl, johnny, ino, robo-ky, order-sol, kliff.
C) ky, anji, venom, testament, A.B.A.
D) bridget, justice.


Ven 7 Déc - 02:19 (2012)
Mout
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Merci pour le partage Kernak  Okay .


Sinon ça serait plutôt laquelle la plus  fiable des 2 ?

 
Déjà les joueurs qui ont fait ces listes semblent d'accords sur le fait que Faust ,Zappa ,Millia ,Chipp et Jam sont les persos les plus forts (enfin pour le moment ).
On remarque aussi que les moins dangereux (toujours d'après eux) sont Justice , Bridget , Testament et venom .
Tous ces persos sont soit en S ou en A pour les meilleurs ou alors en C et en D pour les plus faibles , par contre pour tous les autres les choses semblent moins évidentes .
Du coup pour le moment ça fait un totale de 16 persos dont le potentiel reste à déterminer vu qu'on les retrouve soit en A en B ou en C .


Par contre le perso qui m'intrigue c'est Kliff .
Dans la deuxième liste il fait une grosse chute  Shocked . Il s'est passé quoi pour qu'ils aient plus peur de lui ?



Sinon Justice en bas la liste ça fait tache  , en je veux dire ...c'est supposé être la Gear la plus puissante quand même .J'imagine que de pas pouvoir dasher ça fout grave dans la merde quand on s'appelle pas Potemkin Laughing .


Ven 7 Déc - 04:12 (2012)
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Merci pour les tiers list! Moi qui lorgnait justement sur Faust Twisted Evil

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Ven 7 Déc - 08:58 (2012)
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De rien les gars.

Mout pour la plus fiable des 2, je dirais simplement que la version final sera normalement un peu proche des deux. Ensuite le magazine arcadia au début des fois ils mettent plusieurs tiers listes par rapport au ressentit des gros joueurs ou par région du japon tout dépend.

Et en plus avec la version 1.01 il y aura des M.A.J a mon avis donc tout pourra encore changer.


Ven 7 Déc - 17:26 (2012)
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J'ai déjà vu ces listes postées sur dustloop. Il me semble que la première est faite par un/des joueur(s) de Tokyo et l'autre par un/des joueur(s) du Kansai (Osaka, Kyoto et les environs). Les différences s'expliquent principalement par le fait que selon les régions ce ne sont pas forcément les mêmes persos qui dominent dans les gros ranking. Par exemple à Osaka et Kyoto y a pas vraiment de gros joueurs de Kliff ou d'Anji contrairement à Tokyo (BOB et Koichi pour Kliff, AGF pour Anji) ce qui explique la différence de classement dans les deux tier list.

C'est qu'un avis perso mais à mon avis la première tier list est bien plus représentative du jeu rien que pour l'énorme différence du placement pour les deux persos sus-cité. Kliff est extrêmement porc et facile d'accès et Anji est encore gravement sous-estimé alors que quasiment tous les défauts qu'il avait avant ont été gommés dans cette version.

Sinon la version 1.01 est déjà sortie depuis un moment et à ce que je sais il n'y a aucun changement qui a été fait outre des corrections de bugs. Si il y a eu d'autres changements ils sont en tout cas très mineurs et certainement pas de nature à modifier la tier list.


Sam 8 Déc - 10:19 (2012)
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Merci dream pour ces précisions,

Effectivement la 1er tier list est faite par Koichi et la 2nd est faite par dogura.


Lun 10 Déc - 18:03 (2012)
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il est devenu si dingue que ça faust ?


Mar 11 Déc - 10:56 (2012)
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Je connais pas les changements précis mais c'est un des rares persos qui n'a pas eu de vrais nerfs avec beaucoup de petits boosts à droite à gauche qui au final aident bien son jeu sans pour autant le changer complètement. Anji a été boosté de la même façon aussi, la différence avec Faust, c'est que ce dernier n'était déjà pas dégueu à la base donc ça explique plus ou moins qu'il soit considéré dans les tops maintenant.

Pour les boosts de Faust, de mémoire :

- Le plat tombe toujours au dessus de là où l'adversaire se trouve.
- Les météores ont un plus haut taux d'apparition.
- Le jD fait knockdown beaucoup plus facilement, ce qui aide beaucoup ce perso qui auparavant n'avait pas beaucoup d'opportunités de knockdown à la fin de ses combos.
- Le pogo FB en l'air permet de comboter sur les ennemis en OTG, ça se combine particulièrement bien avec ce que j'ai cité juste au-dessus.
- Avec en plus de ça de nouveaux items plutôt avantageux et la pièce qui désormais fait quand même un hit alors qu'avant elle ne faisait rien il me semble. Pour résumer, on n'a plus rien à perdre quand on sort un item, il y a toujours un effet positif.

De mémoire c'est tout ce dont je me souviens mais il y a beaucoup d'autres choses encore.


Jeu 13 Déc - 11:35 (2012)
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Voici quelques infos du arcadia magazine numéro No153 de février 2013: interview de inoue(kazunoko) et jonio(organisateur de ranking a la salle mikado) et ainsi qu'une tier liste personnel qui a été traduit en anglais par un courageux(pas moi). Désoler pour les non anglophones(car trop la flemme de traduire avec mon anglais basic) SORRY!!!!!!


Part 1: Top characters’ worst match-ups
vs. Faust

worst matchups: Anji and Chipp

One of the characters the players find to be more solid in this version is Faust. And the best character to stop him is Anji. Anji can go through his pokes with HS Fuujin or Guard Points and both have great rewards. Faust is still in danger of getting hit by a {dash HS Fuujin} when trying to use “Nani ga Deru Kana”, leaving him in a unfavorable situation.
Another character against whom it is risky to use pokes and items is Chipp. Faust can hardly beat Chipp’s j.HS and j.D and he still has Teleport to get close without going through Faust’s Zoning.

vs. Chipp

worst matchups: Baiken and Order-Sol

Chipp’s weak point is characters who can block his strongest point – his speed – like Baiken. In the ground, she can use her counter Baku to avoid pokes and, in the air, she has the counter Zakuro which activates really fast against jump attacks. When facing a Baiken with good defenses, Chipp has to take a lot more risks to try to penetrate her defenses, what makes the situation even worse.
Another bad matchup is Order-Sol. In the “poke fight”, Order-Sol’s 2S hardly loses against any one Chipp’s pokes and he can follow with 6HS if it gets a counter hit, which causes a lot of stun.
In the air, Chipp’s jump attacks (through teleport or not) can be avoided by using Gunblaze. And when the situation is the opposite, that is, when Order-Sol is jumping, Chipp’s 6P can barely beat Order-Sol’s jump attacks, what ends up being a really obvious weak point in the matchup.

vs. Zappa

worst matchups: Axl and Dizzy

Zappa has problems against long ranged characters. Axl can keep Zappa at a distance, making it hard for him to get close. Rensengeki ([4]6S) is a really good poke when Zappa has no summon or the Dog. Against the Sword, Zappa’s long range summon, Axl can use his counter Tenhouseki (214P) to catch its poke and punish Zappa. During Dog’s pressure Axl can use Hachisubako (623P) which has a Guard Point that can easily beat the summon.
Likewise, Dizzy has lots of projectiles to keep Zappa out of range and she still has FB Spear (421D) to stop any of his advances. If Zappa wants to use Mukade (236P) from far away, Dizzy can stop it with a D Ice Spike (236D)

vs Kliff

worst matchups: Potemkin and Axl

Kliff seems to have no obvious weak points but he has bad matchups. Specially against Potemkin, who can beat Kliff’s reversal with a Potemkin Buster (632146P), making his wake-up really complicated. Besides that, P Houhou Gaeshi (236P) can be beaten by Megafist (236P) and Kubi Matagi (214K) gets punished by Potemkin Buster (632146P) if blocked. Shiko Otoshi (j.41236S) can be reflected by FDB (63214S) in both the 1st and 2nd hits. In conclusion, lots of Kliff’s moves can be beaten by or punished by Potemkin.
The 2nd bad matchup is against Axl. Kliff’s jump and dash are slow, so Axl has a lot of freedom in his zoning. Rensengeki ([4]6S) is good for locking Kliff down, hitting him even in Kubi Matagi (214K)’s starting animation, making it really hard for Kliff to advance.


Part 2: Interview with Jonio and Inoue
Jonio is the event organizer at Takadanobaba Mikado, the main Guilty Gear gamecenter in the Tokyo region.
Inoue (or Kazunoko) placed 2nd in Guilty Gear at SBO’10 and won tourneys overseas. He has been playing SFIV, but he’s considered a “multi-game” player.


- First of all, I’d like for you to say what you think about Guilty Gear’s new version taking 6 years to be released after Accent Core.

Inoue: I wasn’t even expecting it to be released anymore, but I was really happy when it was announced. And having a big tourney now is going to be really fun. Recently, my goal has been to participate in these bigger events.

Jonio: Personally, I also thought we would keep playing Accent Core only and would keep thinking “there isn’t going to be a new version, right?”. The new version increased the number of new players, which was really good. Despite being different versions, there’s also the console version where the beginners can play more comfortably.


- I’d like to ask you something, Jonio. What was the reaction of the players who already played Accent Core to the new version?

Jonio: The players who already played Accent Core simply love Guilty Gear. That’s why they all accepted the new version really well.


- It has been 3 months since +R was released. What are your thoughts when playing it, did you get more interested in it?

Inoue: Well, with the changes in the damage and total HP, the amount of readings against the opponent increased. That requires more planning about how to win against his defenses, so in comparison to Accent Core I have the impression that +R demands more skill from the player. Overall, I’d say I’m really happy with the changes.

Jonio: My viewpoint is more of a gamecenter employee but, with the new version, many gamecenters have Guilty Gear again in their setups and I think that has a really impressive meaning. I was worried about the screen changes, if the players would be able to play on them. At Mikado we still use the old displays, but the majority of the game centers switched to LCD. Nevertheless, I’d say everyone adapted very quickly.


- When you say worried about switching to LCD, is it about the FRC timing? Wouldn’t there be a problem with it?

Jonio: The FRC timing is fixed, right? That’s why the majority of the players learn it by muscular memory. That depends a little on the move, but there are only a few that really requires you to look at the screen to know the timing, that’s why I don’t think it matters.


- Inoue, you used to play Order-Sol in Accent Core, but now which character do you plan to use?

Inoue: I played Order-Sol since the beginning, but now I’ll play Kliff.


- You’re not satisfied with +R’s Order-Sol?

Inoue: No, it’s not that. I think the new Order-Sol is a high tier character. His changes were many buffs that I think were correct. However, when I played Kliff and decided to study him more, I thought he was a really strong and interesting character. So Kliff gave me more motivation to play lol


- I see. Well, tell us which characters should we be careful with.

Inoue: Baiken…

Jonio: I’d say Zappa. People says he’s strong in both Kantou (east region) and Kansai (west region). Specially in Kansai…
Note from Nikki: Chonari (ZA) is from Kansai…

Inoue: And then comes my character, Kliff.

Jonio: Kliff is also a character recommended to beginners.

Inoue: After that, Millia. I think the new Millia is really strong. Her neutral game is really strong like always and they keep finding better combos for her.

Jonio: I think Millia is a really interesting character to watch, her combos vary from player to player. Maybe they haven’t found her best options yet, but all this research around her is something really nice.

- Millia’s backdash has less invencibility now. I imagine her players must be really frustrated when pressured.


Inoue: Actually no, if they dedicate themselves and play a little safe, they won’t get pressured lol; the characters I consider top are Faust, Zappa and Kliff, there are a lot of players with those characters now. In team tournaments I believe it’s important to have some of them present.

- How is the character distribution at Mikado’s events?


Jonio: I see a good mix of characters. Maybe what’s most surprising now is the number of Kliff players.

Inoue: Most of the Accent Core players also didn’t change characters.

Jonio: And most of the characters were buffed.

Inoue: I believe that if someone switched characters, it was probably due to the same reason as mine.


- Which players are dangerous right now?

Jonio: Well, among the Machida players, I’d say BOB (Kliff), AGF (Anji) and Kiisha (Faust). At the tournaments there it’s them in the finals almost every time. Specially BOB, his game style is so strong that it leaves a “broken character” impression among the new players…


- Normally the players get together at Machida, but they go to Takadanobaba Mikado for the events?

Jonio: Yes, they do. However, after the tourney there isn’t much time to discuss the matches lol; But despite that, just the fact that they came and wanted to play makes me happy already. There are other strong players that come from far away to participate in Mikado’s events. I think that gives more motivation to those who don’t have a strong scene. That also becomes a great motivation for me.


- Are there players that started to play in +R that go to Mikado too?

Jonio: Well, like you can imagine, there are very few of those at Mikado’s events. However, some new players that used to play casually the console version showed up and got interested. There are also many players that used to play and now are coming back.


- Guilty Gear is an old series, so the players are usually older, right?

Jonio: During the week the events should start at 19h, but since a lot of people said that they couldn’t make it from work, we now start at 20h. There are very few students. I’d like to ask the players who started fighting game with BlazBlue to come and play too. I believe they’d be able to play Guilty Gear with little or no problems. Now, we plan to do a event for beginners focusing on that aspect.


- The ID card update is coming, what do you expect from it?

Jonio: I hope it’s like the other games, with extra colors and titles. And it would be good if the card reading was fast too. I think that a slow reading breaks the rhythm of the matches, specially since the Guilty Gear players aren’t used to the ID cards, so it’s better to avoid useless stress reasons.


- What do you think of theses systems that estimate the players’ skill levels?

Jonio: Personally, I like the scoring system, they are easy to understand, but the dan’isen system seems better.

- Inoue, is there any functionality that you’d like to add?

Inoue: I’d like to be able to access the gamecenter information real time from my cellphone. For example, if there is a dan system, I’d like to be able to search for people the same dan as me so that we can meet in an easier way.
Jonio: Yes, if we could see the match logs in real time, we could find people in the same level easier.


- Do you plan to take part in the national tournament (Arc Revolution Cup)?

Inoue: I really want to participate, but I still don’t know if it’s teams or singles and we’ll also have another game update before it.

Jonio: I’ll enter the Mikado qualifier for sure. Maybe I’ll be able to qualify if it is teams…? lol


- Since it’s a new version, there’s more interest in participating, right?

Inoue: That’s right! Jonio has to play!

Jonio: What? You’re throwing it all on me!? lol

- Now please, some last words!

Inoue: Be careful with Kliff and Zappa in the tournament. I think that being able to defeat these two characters will be an important point.

Jonio: We’re planning many events now. If possible, I’d like that even those who live far away said “I want to go”. Most of the bigger events are in long holidays, so if you’re interested to come, please do!


Part 3: Tier lists

Now we’ll proceed to the next subject, the eternal discussion about tier lists. We asked both (Jonio and Inoue) to make a tier list. The first thing we noticed is that Baiken is S in both lists. Right now, her tactics are really strong. Kliff, Inoue’s character, is also up there. There are also no doubts about Faust and Zappa. Chipp is also considered strong, but there was a difference among the lists. In Jonio’s opinion, C and D characters have some trouble when compared to the others. The national tournament is almost here, so it’s good to get ready for these matchups!


Inoue:

S: Kliff, Faust, Zappa, Baiken
A: Millia, Jam
B: everyone else
Millia and Jam would also be S but they have some problems against the other S so they’re stuck in A. Chipp has the potential to be S, but his low health creates comeback chances for the opponent, so I couldn’t consider him S. I didn’t split the list below B to avoid comments like “They said this character is weak, I’m not going to get interested in it”. I think that could force +R to become a 6 character game and it would be a shame.


Jonio:

S: Chipp, Faust, Baiken, Zappa, Kliff
A: Millia, Jam, Anji, Axl, Dizzy, Slayer, I-No, Robo-Ky, Order-Sol
B: Sol, May, Eddie, Potemkin, Johnny, ABA
C: Ky, Venom, Testament
D: Bridget, Justice
Based in the many events I watched, my conclusion is something like that. I think only Bridget and Justice are in a bit more complicated situation than the rest.


Font: Arcadia Magazine nº 153, February/2013
Article: H.H, Koichi
Collaboration: Jonio, Inoue


Dim 3 Mar - 01:10 (2013)
ZinOldies
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Citation:
Well, tell us which characters should we be careful with.

Inoue: Baiken…


Laughing *poke aot*


Merci Kernak pour le post ((: !
Serieux baiken R me donne la dalle, en effet son nouveau contre ( la roue) anti air sort d'une de ces vitesses ahah
pas etonant qu'elle soit bien placée par les deux joueur etant donné ce que j'ai vu jusqu'à présent
...

Mais wow, ca fait quand même pas mal d'S tier oO


Dim 3 Mar - 04:46 (2013)
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Merci pour l'info Kernak !

Par contre j'ai l'impression que ça concerne la version précédente et pas la 1.10. Depuis le dernier rééquilibrage, beaucoup de gens estiment que Justice est remontée dans la tier list et Kliff n'a plus l'étoffe d'un god tier.


Dim 3 Mar - 05:02 (2013)
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Putain baiken top tiers, je stop le jeu. Ou alors je DL pas l update.  Mr. Green


Dim 3 Mar - 11:34 (2013)
Kernak
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Yes zino,

Citation:
Well, tell us which characters should we be careful with.

Inoue: Baiken…

Moi aussi, c'est la citation sur la qu'elle j'ai bloqué. D'ailleur j'en ai parlé direct a baykou et onigan.

Oui dream maker je pense que tu a pas tort, car quand tu achete un arcadia c'est toujour daté au prochain mois. L'interview est du arcadia de fevrier 2013 donc le magazine est sorti en janvier et la mise a jour Version 1.10 est sorti le 18 janvier.


Dim 3 Mar - 20:29 (2013)
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Merci pour les infos, Kernak (^_^)b

Comme en témoignent certains passages de l'interview, il est certain qu'ils parlent de "l'ancienne" version 1.01, laquelle a récemment cédé la place à la version 1.10 :

- It has been 3 months since +R was released. What are your thoughts when playing it, did you get more interested in it?
[...]
Inoue: I really want to participate, but I still don’t know if it’s teams or singles and we’ll also have another game update before it.

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Dim 3 Mar - 20:54 (2013)
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Ho yes,

Merci mitsu pour ces précisions.


Dim 3 Mar - 23:29 (2013)
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